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| User Info | HFT "Flash" Orders - Nasdaq Admission? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1266-H....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-07-28 18:00:43
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Patentleathershoes Posts: 7642 Incept: 2007-09-13 
Looking forward to PB&J time!
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2009-07-28 18:05:20
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Frat Posts: 150 Incept: 2009-07-15 NKY
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So is THIS how GS has "made" their profits or at least a good portion of them? By basically cheating? I'm not surprised in the least, I'd just like to understand it better. I guess I'll employ my "Starve the Beast" mentality here and completely divest myself. ****'em, I don't enjoy playing a rigged game. Can these types of people be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes?
2009-07-28 18:05:46
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Spazznout Posts: 235 Incept: 2009-04-15 Columbus, Ohio
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Hmm looks like a rose, smells like poop. Good to see but honestly Genesis this seems to be to little to late. What are the chances a Sen or Congressman who receives $$ from the Too Big Too Fail banks would ever allow or vote to enforce such a treasonous attack on their precious scams.
---------- "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy 35th president of US 1961-1963 (1917 - 1963) Last modified:
2009-07-28 18:10:10 by spazznout
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Drunkle Posts: 1002 Incept: 2008-02-11 san diego ca
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there's no "there" there. nothing will be done. why are these things being called "orders"? they're not orders, they're upskirt panty shots of unsuspecting market participants. and what's with "flash"? sure, nasdicks are "flashing" everyone else's orders to paying insiders, but that's called INSIDE INFOR-****ING-MATION in the real world. this spin is created to confuse the population, slap minor fines on the participants and avoid shutting down the cheats. ---------- America: Home of the Fleeced, Land of the Slaves
2009-07-28 18:09:52
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Jmanng Posts: 135 Incept: 2009-01-03 Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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So NASDAQ decided to join in the fun instead of doing the right thing and exposing the fraud. They deserve any punishment the SEC gives them.
---------- Land of the free, home of the pigmen? We're restoring the Republic. 
2009-07-28 18:21:12
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Karlmarxghost Posts: 2641 Incept: 2009-01-26 
Stealing Your Property
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So let me get this straight. By using this "Flash" technique you can see orders before they are placed and make a decision to put an order in before so you can make money? Im confused. Isnt this what Goldman was doing? Is this just a way of confirming what we said Goldman was doing a couple weeks ago? Im confused HELP!!!
---------- My views are my view and mine alone. Karl or ticker forum does not endorse or necessarily agree with my views. DO not trade on my views or take them personally.
2009-07-28 18:23:56
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Zenthunder Posts: 4684 Incept: 2007-10-11
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hey hasnt the naz been running higher than everything lately? A bit out of step?
2009-07-28 18:26:33
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Texpat Posts: 16 Incept: 2009-07-20
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If I understand correctly, "well-connected" folks can use this broadly to build one big meta-market where individual markets do "little" wrong, but which can be played together to allow the meta-player to mix and match trades across markets... Let's hope this **** gets shut-down, AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, AUDIT THE ****** FED AND IT'S SPOOs and QQQQs BUYING SLUSH FUND!!!
2009-07-28 18:46:29
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Anan_r Posts: 15 Incept: 2008-03-03
Online
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this is no different from insider trading.If this is legal then SEC should prbably legalize insider trading too...very unfair
2009-07-28 18:54:02
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Brunothepug Posts: 3 Incept: 2009-07-24 Scottsdale, AZ
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What would be the legitimate purpose of these Flash orders? If they are as blatantly unfair as suggested, how were they previously presented so that no one could immediate determine that they'd be used unfairly? Also, for as simple as this type of "cheat" seems, I'm surprised that there isn't a law against this in the first place. You'd think that part of the responsibility of running an exchange would be to keep this exact type of data extremely private so as not to help some individuals gain from the extra information.
2009-07-28 18:58:30
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Kylafoon Posts: 719 Incept: 2009-02-05
Zombie Portal Lookout Online
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Another beautifully delivered ticker! Thanks Karl! Somehow the Nasdaq must believe since they have acknowledged said thievery all will be well and they will stop if told to do so. GMAFB - The one glaring trait that has emerged from Wall Street since last Sept. is the obscene arrogance these jackasses exude. They must believe themselves to be untouchable and above all law. I'm starting to understand trial by boiled rope. ---------- "...But whenever we see things done wildly, but taken tamely, then the State is growing insane..." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton 1910
2009-07-28 18:59:59
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Quik49 Posts: 2297 Incept: 2007-12-11
out yonderway
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Gonna be hard to believe that they turned the machines off when they say they do....which is what they should be doing NOW!
---------- Potter's not selling, he's buying;
2009-07-28 19:05:44
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2672 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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This is simply Insider Trading & Pay to Play. It might even be time to consider an outright temporary .gov seizure of the Exchanges for the sake of clearing them of infestation and reselling the rights to operate them as per the cellular phone spectra. This isn't a Free Market in any sense and it needs to be shuttered. ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
2009-07-28 19:13:21
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Xanares Posts: 1288 Incept: 2008-11-10
London
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 Nice to see an effect from this particular blogging-subject so quick. That will turn some lights on here and there and hopefully make people look in the right places for news. Someone should sling for this "reluctant" behavior.
2009-07-28 19:13:55
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Drunkle Posts: 1002 Incept: 2008-02-11 san diego ca
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"What would be the legitimate purpose of these Flash orders? If they are as blatantly unfair as suggested, how were they previously presented so that no one could immediate determine that they'd be used unfairly?" you're assuming that there are cops on the job overseeing this kind of activity. aren't you even slightly curious why instead of cops going in and busting this **** up, we have a senator nosing around? "Also, for as simple as this type of "cheat" seems, I'm surprised that there isn't a law against this in the first place. You'd think that part of the responsibility of running an exchange would be to keep this exact type of data extremely private so as not to help some individuals gain from the extra information." from wiki on insider trading: SEC regulations SEC regulation FD ("Full Disclosure") requires that if a company intentionally discloses material non-public information to one person, it must simultaneously disclose that information to the public at large. In the case of an unintentional disclosure of material non-public information to one person, the company must make a public disclosure "promptly."[12] Insider trading, or similar practices, are also regulated by the SEC under its rules on takeovers and tender offers under the Williams Act. only tv homemakers, ball players and penny ante nobodies go to jail for this ****. the sec should be shut down immediately and taken over by the fbi or nsa or somebody who is a ******n AMERICAN. ---------- America: Home of the Fleeced, Land of the Slaves
2009-07-28 19:22:00
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Aja Posts: 2209 Incept: 2008-03-19
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Please everyone fax this ticker to your idiot congresspeople. Edit; Along with a note asking why is only Schumer interested in this? Last modified:
2009-07-28 19:34:01 by aja
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Templar223 Posts: 397 Incept: 2008-04-28
Champaign, IL
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As a layperson when it comes to the markets and investing, this further turns me off to the idea of EVER investing ANYTHING in the market. It's rigged. Pure and simple. Let the bastards eat cake. But I'm not buying their cake. John
2009-07-28 19:51:04
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Tbear Posts: 2529 Incept: 2007-10-30
Tug Hill
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Quote:What would be the legitimate purpose of these Flash orders? Flash orders started several years ago when ATS's became popular and people started paying for order flow (BTW, TY Bernie & Co.--that is how his BD made it's money). Every time i entered an order (a 'flash' order) i got paid a rebate. I didn't want to get executed against, so i only left it up there for a fraction of a second, collected my rebate for enetering the order, and was on my way. I could make a living entering orders all day, and never actually trade. Then along comes internalization, dark pools, HFT (which relies on the development of order communication speed), and a host of other things, plus the elimination of the specialist or traditional market market who 'worked' your order. When i get an order, i want to capture as much of the vig as i can...that means rebates from the exchanges/ATS's etc., as well as TWO commissions from my customers...so i flash that order to 'select' traders (my own HFT desk included) to see if there is an in-system match. If not, i go to the market place and show the order to the world--which is what reg nms requires, and which is why Goldman's practice is not legal. What happens in a shop like Goldman, where in a variety of ways they see these flash orders, is that they run ahead knowing there is a buyer or seller getting ready to show up in the market place. They take the stock two or three spreads (pennies) and then offer it back to the buyer when he shows up in the market place. It all happens in a matter of a second...or less. That is the 'legitimate' process behind flash orders. Really, they are an outgroth of changes in market structure and electronic communication. I equate the process to the old days of 'SOES Bandits' which, it retrospect, almost appear tanme by comparison. And without getting into it, it is one of the major issues which the SEC has to wrestle with in developing a new short sales rule. What is a 'plus tick?' The flash order? The actual order in the full marketplace? And when does it count--as in what happens if the plus tick order is executed against before i even see it (because my systems are .10 seconds slower than the next guys? Does that make it a plus tick at the time i enetered my order, but then a half second later i sell stock on a minus tick, which was a plus tick? Yikes.....no wonder volume is contracting....soon it will be back to the capital transfer process...imagine that?
2009-07-28 19:55:51
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Unicorn18clubber Posts: 342 Incept: 2009-06-04
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so june 3rd...thatys about when the market started acting wacky. perhaps this entire ramp comes off because it was manufactured by the machines. its fake.... how long will it take to get to the pre-run up levels is now the question
---------- Karl, can I change my screen name please? As it stands now it sounds like something Bernake and Geithner do together at the Rainbow nightclub every Friday night.
2009-07-28 20:03:25
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Capeman Posts: 2169 Incept: 2007-07-12
San Diego
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Hmmm... any correlation between the timing of Nasdaq allowing flash orders and the nearly 15% non-retraced gain in the last three weeks? Are the big players getting together and playing distribution and finding bagholders? This is way too ****ing fishy. ---------- "I believe all God's creatures have a soul... except bears, bears are Godless killing machines!" - Steven Colbert
2009-07-28 20:06:14
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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Don't lose sight of the "fact" that this is NASDAQ trying to COMPETE with Direct Edge. SO, Direct Edge needs to be investigated as well if they are distributing/frontrunning the same info.
---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-07-28 20:08:37
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Gizmodo Posts: 1146 Incept: 2009-04-15
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KD, I can't help conclude that your recent mentionings in the media (same with Zero Hedge) have helped to get this issue noticed. Congratulations, thank you, and never let up!
---------- "Hide the decline": the policy of climate fraudsters and government fraudsters alike. Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents...
2009-07-28 20:11:56
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Moonwick Posts: 459 Incept: 2008-04-05
Austin, TX
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All of this fuss over flash orders is fine and dandy, but it seems like it's distracting potential outrage away from something I find far more disturbing and opaque: NYSE's Supplemental Liquidity Program (SLP), and its sole participant, Goldman Sachs. While the details of how these flash orders work are generally available to the public, I still have yet to hear speculation about what sort of unintended benefits (beyond the stated "liquidity rebate") the SLP might confer upon its single beneficiary. A single beneficiary, I might add, that is required to trade for its own account when acting as an SLP. Whereas status as a flash order must explicitly be opted into when entering an order, the SLP potentially affects every market order that is routed to the NYSE. Why hasn't more attention been directed towards this? ---------- "Embrace the company of those that seek the truth, and run from those who have found it." -- Václav Havel Last modified:
2009-07-28 20:17:04 by moonwick
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Mike57 Posts: 352 Incept: 2009-03-10 Bethlehem, PA.
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If you stop and think about it this would be the biggest fraud that has been carried out with blatant impunity. Logically stocks can only go up, down or stay the same so the average J6P will be right some of the time, because he will win the bet a certain percentage of the time it is hard for the average investor to accept the fact that the game is rigged.
2009-07-28 20:15:48
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